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Author Topic: Mining Bonus  (Read 888 times)

spocklin

Mining Bonus
« on: April 08, 2016, 08:31:07 PM »
Should we increase the mining bonus? 2x 3x 5x or more?

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 08:34:12 PM »
I agree. How high should we go?

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 08:49:46 PM »
I suggest 5x for a standard. It is much higher on many other servers but given the size of planets on here I think 5x or 500% would work just fine.

Nocturna

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 12:18:33 AM »
Spocklin, don't you think it would be too easy game? Voting sytem + x5 mining bonus, and what about economy? What about guys who likes to buy or sell something? And don't forget about little pirate factions - for now there are almost no reasons to rob someone...

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 01:56:25 AM »
I think it would change the dynamic of the game entirely. That being instead of pirating and little one man factions stealing from others it would encourage players to have actual fleet battles since they could get the resources to do so and would make our server go into the direction I think that starmade is headed for anyways.

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 04:42:30 PM »
How about bonuses specific to factioned space.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 10:03:25 PM »
So you are saying factioned space gets a much higher bonus than what it does right now? I can work with that :P

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 10:27:02 PM »
So you are saying factioned space gets a much higher bonus than what it does right now? I can work with that :P

Yep, think of it as a bonus for taking responsibility for that sector.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 12:15:26 AM »
How big will this bonus be?

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 04:18:20 AM »
How big will this bonus be?

Billions!

Hmm, beats me. What are you thinking?

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 05:40:09 AM »
I'd say keep it at 3x or 5x not much higher unless you really want to see massive fleets and battles?

Jackiechan64

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 09:59:20 AM »
My thoughts, if you add a mining bonus, it should be for the sectors controlled by factions, this way it keeps the players in their territory, as we get bigger, room will run out, so having a limit to how many systems a faction can have will be a determining factor. If you go that route, there needs to be more planets in each sector which is easy to do in the server config file. Mining bonus of 2 for non controlled sectors and 5 for controlled sectors. Also, 250mil is high for a vote, maybe make it 10 or 15 mil so that it is balanced with how cheap things are. Thoughts guys?

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2016, 04:48:01 PM »
Do the mining bonus for factioned territory.

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2016, 05:08:20 PM »
...there needs to be more planets in each sector which is easy to do in the server config file...

Early-on there was an issue where dozens of planets would be spawned for each system, and pilots generally didn't like that. Since then, I believe Schine has limited the number of planets per system to a range of 0-7. If you've seen config options to modify this, I'd love to hear about it.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016, 09:10:54 PM »
Well I think the mining bonus is just the amount you get for ore/shards.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 12:34:26 AM »
Mining bonus in factioned territory should work just fine and is a good alternative to having lots more planets.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2016, 04:47:40 AM »
So when would this bonus take effect?

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2016, 02:29:11 PM »
So when would this bonus take effect?

General rule is that any proposed change is discussed for at least 7 days, prior to implementation.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 12:15:44 AM »
Was only curious :P

Sachys

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2016, 09:20:07 PM »
Mining bonus should be low - and that vote for credits thing gone. If we have an entire universe of resources, theres no need for any mining bonus at all - particularly not coupled with large planet sizes and roid respawn.

Essentially it just makes it singleplayer with additional voices in your head! O____o

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2016, 09:52:35 PM »
I like the mining bonuses because it encourage bigger ships and fleets. It also helps players rebuild after being completely crushed. I have seen time and again on other servers where players are killed by bigger and more powerful factions with no way to build back up and so they just leave effectively killing the player count on those servers. Plus space is full of resources. The other thing is that for factions, like mine, that don't want to stay at spawn for hours farming blocks there is a need for actual resources and with the current bonus it is still rare to find large quantities of Macet and Rammet, two of the most needed resources in the game.

Sachys

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2016, 01:15:27 AM »
The other thing is that for factions, like mine, that don't want to stay at spawn for hours farming blocks there is a need for actual resources and with the current bonus it is still rare to find large quantities of Macet and Rammet, two of the most needed resources in the game.

Thats a load of cobblers! You can just mine like anybody else. All the current bonus allows for is certain types to grief other players through immediate spawning of ships from BP because they went to 222 and filled a bunch of BPs.

Unless you earned it, you should NOT be able to fly it / put it in a fleet.

Nevermind the fact theres now mining fleets (wonky as they may be).

If you just want creative mode, play offline.


KillaKrazy

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2016, 02:29:00 AM »
The mining bonus is fine where it's currently at.  No one wants to spend months mining just to build a single ship.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2016, 02:34:03 AM »
Sachys maybe you should make a suggestion about increasing spawn shop refill time?

Azereiah

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2016, 01:54:14 AM »
Given how bored players tend to get when they spend all their time doing nothing but mining, I'd say having it increased somewhat would be good.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2016, 02:31:21 AM »
Agreed.

Nocturna

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2016, 04:00:05 AM »
Given how bored players tend to get when they spend all their time doing nothing but mining, I'd say having it increased somewhat would be good.

They could build a little ships, trade and rob other players...
What will we do a few weeks later? Brag to each other our big ships?

Saa

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2016, 04:58:16 PM »
I would support a small increase in mining output for now, in exchange for an equivalent reduction in voting bounty.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2016, 04:45:28 AM »
Mining bonus increase +4

KillaKrazy

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2016, 11:53:34 AM »
The mining bonus is fine now, but I would rather have it increased than decreased. Make it to much of a chore and people will stop playing here.

Saa

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2016, 03:10:24 PM »
I certainly don't bother mining. I don't bother pirating for loot either (just for fun).

It would take hours of grind to earn 250M credits, and I get that on demand in 1 minute. I can't even be bothered to clean up the mess of space junk floating undocked around spawn because it's not worth the tedium of pushing them out, torching or blasting the fac mod, then deleting (or blasting & salvaging). Do that for an hour and I *might* earn 50M worth of loot. Maybe. On a really good day. And players tend to think you're really evil if you help clean up spawn regularly... so it actually costs me politically.

Necessity for mining relates to the size of entities players are building. If players are building 300K mass ships and the server has a bonus of x12 in friendly space, such players will have some substantial grind time ahead. If the bonus is x50 then players building stuff under 50K mass can literally go spend an hour mining every other day and still churn out ships.

No specific recommendation there, just want to point out that mining bonus doesn't exist in isolation. It's value depends largely on player expectations of what they can build and server ship size limits. Mining bonus also directly affects ship sizes. A very high bonus means many, many players will be flying very, very large ships most of the time. Like the 200K ship that accidentally bumped into spawn last night and sent everyone into slideshow mode for 5 minutes before dropping several of us.

I think that no bonus is needed at all. I know, that idea absolutely infuriates players intent on being able to spawn in 100K+ ships with only a couple hours of work and I'm sure I'll be accused of something atrocious for even mentioning that such possibility exists... It doesn't ruin the game though, it only ruins titan-spamming. In a universe with no mining bonus, titans would really truly be an epic project and would be epic rarities to see in game. In a universe with x96 bonus, titans will be the standard grunt ship and every player will pushing to make bigger and bigger titans to outdo their neighbors. It really depends on what we want the game to look like.

Personally, I think a game where every player flies an epic uber-ship is absurd and uncompelling. A form of mutual ego masturbation. Play, on the other hand involves struggle and competition and cooperation. This can occur within any size frame. It cannot occur within an uncapped framework sitting on top of limitless resources. Struggle is erased. Cooperation is unnecessary. Competition becomes based almost purely on size (who can build the biggest) rather than any issue of engineering, design, piloting, or strategy because no skill in those other areas is required to get billions of credits and titanic loads of blocks.

Sachys

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2016, 05:21:11 PM »
...a game where every player flies an epic uber-ship is absurd and uncompelling. A form of mutual ego masturbation. Play, on the other hand involves struggle and competition and cooperation. This can occur within any size frame. It cannot occur within an uncapped framework sitting on top of limitless resources. Struggle is erased. Cooperation is unnecessary. Competition becomes based almost purely on size (who can build the biggest) rather than any issue of engineering, design, piloting, or strategy because no skill in those other areas is required to get billions of credits and titanic loads of blocks.

Summed up nicely!  :)

Nocturna

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2016, 07:16:55 PM »
Quote
...a game where every player flies an epic uber-ship is absurd and uncompelling. A form of mutual ego masturbation. Play, on the other hand involves struggle and competition and cooperation. This can occur within any size frame. It cannot occur within an uncapped framework sitting on top of limitless resources. Struggle is erased. Cooperation is unnecessary. Competition becomes based almost purely on size (who can build the biggest) rather than any issue of engineering, design, piloting, or strategy because no skill in those other areas is required to get billions of credits and titanic loads of blocks.
Exactly.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2016, 03:23:29 PM »
Saa, you are assuming that every player knows how to and wants to build a titan when most players can't and won't because their computers will not be able to handle such ships. getting rid of bonuses just leads to a Dark Souls kind of game where everything is hard to get. Let me remind you that this is a SPACE GAME and that SPACE is literally full of resources. Also there are plenty of people, like myself, that will have many capitols in place of titans due to the fact that titans are too huge to be effective in a universe where they can be overrun by many smaller ships. For lag purposes I say we should ban all ships after a certain mass from entering spawn. I also say that there should be a TOTAL ban on purposely ramming other ships/stations/planets because it is essentially griefing the server. Like I said this is a SPACE game and I think our "elitists, hardcore" members should realize that by now. Also I pointed out before that getting rid of or decreasing the bonus discourages people from joining the server because someone like you may just build a titan and kill noobs for their stuff.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 03:27:39 PM by spocklin »

Saa

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2016, 09:53:56 PM »
If they don't want to at first, within a few days of seeing that all the established players have one, they will realize they need one. Without one, they will be fodder and will see that.

Space is full of resources. Yes. Resources take time to extract though.

As far as game... Yes. It should be a game. With no challenge and everything free... it is not a game. Just space legos with a bottomless bucket.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2016, 10:10:54 PM »
It should not take a month to get what you need to build 1 decent ship. Plus starmade is heading in the direction of making actual fleet battles more probable instead of 1v1 engagements that favor people who play this game non-stop.

Saa

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2016, 10:13:07 PM »
Your definition of "decent ship" does not have to be something that requires a month to make.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2016, 11:32:34 PM »
In order to counter people that have been playing for months on end you have to build something big anyways.

Saa

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2016, 02:55:28 AM »
I understand. That kind of makes my point though. If we have a massive bonus, with a x96 bonus the current players will all build outrageous ships and the new players will feel, like you do, that they need to match up.

So you either need to match up to what other players have spent months building up... or with a x96 bonus you need to match up to what players have spent days building up. The dynamic does not change.

By using a lower bonus, the standard is set lower. Some long-term players will have lag-sized ships, but those took months to build so not every new player will expect to have one this week.

In most games, reaching level 99 doesn't happen in a few days. It takes months. Many other interesting things happen in the meantime. If you change the rules to make reaching level 99 take 3 days... what is left to strive for? What is the point?

Low bonuses mean that players don't just join then go hide somewhere and grind for 3 days to build a 300K mass monster. It takes a month and no one wants to grind nonstop that long, so they will interact as well.

And. If it takes everyone 1 month to build a titan, what are you afraid of? You won't be left behind. You won't be outclassed. The server is new and you are one of the first.

Make the bonus x96, then yes - you need to rush to max size level or be outclassed.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2016, 04:49:25 AM »
That leads me to my second point, most players do not know how to build a ship that big in a way such that they can win every battle. Everyone has to learn the lesson at some point that having one massive ship is absolutely stupid when it can just get overrun.

KillaKrazy

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2016, 06:23:16 AM »
What decent server have you found that actually stays live for a few months without resets? You are making some big assumptions that everyone goes out to build a 1m+ mass ship.  The only players doing that are going to be the ones who know how to build properly as a new player won't know how to fly it let alone build all the docked components that are required. I would reckon that most players would be fine with flying a decent 100-200k mass ship as a flagship.

ErthParadine

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2016, 03:51:30 PM »
That leads me to my second point, most players do not know how to build a ship that big in a way such that they can win every battle. Everyone has to learn the lesson at some point that having one massive ship is absolutely stupid when it can just get overrun.

I'd prefer this lesson is learned, before they end up crashing the server.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2016, 06:32:08 PM »
What decent server have you found that actually stays live for a few months without resets? You are making some big assumptions that everyone goes out to build a 1m+ mass ship.  The only players doing that are going to be the ones who know how to build properly as a new player won't know how to fly it let alone build all the docked components that are required. I would reckon that most players would be fine with flying a decent 100-200k mass ship as a flagship.

Killa is right.

Sachys

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2016, 07:04:21 PM »
vote is rigged - no option for reduction nor "keep it as it is".

cant vote.

spocklin

Re: Mining Bonus
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2016, 02:43:16 PM »
Since the reset is in place now we should come back to look at this topic further.