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Author Topic: Request for clarification...  (Read 389 times)

Sachys

Request for clarification...
« on: June 18, 2016, 11:13:50 PM »
"Do not spam. This includes, but is not limited to:

    Filling chat with pointless, non-constructive, or repeated messages.
    Announcing a shop, station, or anything else, more than once per hour.
    Relogging/reconnecting more than ten times during any twenty-four hour period."

...its the latter part im asking about - because its NOT unusual (with the game being alpha) for people tohave really weird and unique issues logging on. my current situation is that after a bunch of EOFE errors (and of course really wanting to play), i ended up reinstalling, reinstalling java and being unable to play at all. in that time i must have ATTEMPTED logging on more than ten times - only to be met with another (usually mislabelled) EOFE excption error.

and NO, upgrading equipment etc is not neccesarily possible for all. some fixes are, some are not.

this rule should not stand without clarification for specific circumstances. - ie "repeated relogging and being on the server for a FEW MINUTES AT A TIME" - that i would find entirely acceptable and sensible. As it stands, it reads thusly:
"hey - you did this ten times"
"how did i do that?! - i couldnt even connect"
"i dont care, ten is the limit!"
"but i..."
*banhammer
 
not cool. please think on this erth and make it a more friendly rule, rather than a more exclusionary rule!

(and yes, i'd give an equal fugg were I not in my current situation)


Nacon

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2016, 11:44:41 PM »
I see two sides here... 

1: I can understand how serious that is when it come to technical issue on Java, causing problem with the database. Might be a potential exploit abuse.

2: Having a rule on number of time relogging in a day is very uncommon in any games on any platforms. It does need more awareness before anyone does it unintentional.

Sachys

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2016, 11:49:42 PM »
before anyone does it unintentional.

exactly - i know a lot of other players who will log (for varying reasons) on and off through the day to see to various things.

besides that, ive yet to see any mention of it causing server strain (unless idiotically excessive - we can look at Exitars support posts here for a version of that). ten times seems terribly low - especially considering potential connection problems (due to the game itself, java, firewalls, internet issues and so on - even server side issues!).

and this is why i posted.

cheers for putting in!

ErthParadine

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2016, 11:57:48 PM »
I see two sides here... 

1: I can understand how serious that is when it come to technical issue on Java, causing problem with the database. Might be a potential exploit abuse.

2: Having a rule on number of time relogging in a day is very uncommon in any games on any platforms. It does need more awareness before anyone does it unintentional.

I understand the need, and validity, of occasional relogs during a day. The game is alpha, its crash-prone, you're checking on stuff, etc... With that said, under most circumstances, a few relogs a day are not unexpected.

During the past six months there's been 7 known cases where relogs exceeded 10 in a 24 hour period. One, and perhaps now two, were related to corrupted player data files that required manual attention. One was a player overreacting to being muted on #general, and the others were related to network connectivity issues on the client-end. While 10 is relog number at the moment, we'll revisit that as time goes on, and general player patterns evolve.

...and yes, the exploit angle is an underlying concern as well.

I agree with awareness, and we'll work to do that. Although the most likely form of awareness will be a temporary account suspension (hence the rule adjustment; ensuring that nobody claims admins are applying undocumented new rules). Due to the nature of relogs and inability to contact the pilot in-game, the suspension is intended as a corrective, and not punitive, strategy: the goal is calling attention attention to the excess, and perhaps engaging in a constructive dialog that helps the pilot address their issue(s).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 12:08:37 AM by ErthParadine »

Sachys

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 12:26:26 AM »

sorry mate, your answer deflects my concerns / queries rather than adresses them - which in turn makes them more serious.

ErthParadine

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 12:28:06 AM »
sorry mate, your answer deflects my concerns / queries rather than adresses them - which in turn makes them more serious.

Then address my concerns, as I'm the one that has to deal with this issue 99% of the time.

Sachys

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2016, 12:46:29 AM »
sorry mate, your answer deflects my concerns / queries rather than adresses them - which in turn makes them more serious.

Then address my concerns, as I'm the one that has to deal with this issue 99% of the time.
then adress our concerns so it doesnt happen.

theres a pattern here man!

lets get rid of those hospital curtains, yeah!?

KillaKrazy

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2016, 01:14:57 AM »
This rule potentially concerns me as well.  I could understand if it was a number of relogs within a short time period, but 10 relogs within 24 hours is concerning to me.  With work, school, personal life, people may end up logging on and off throughout the day.

ErthParadine

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2016, 01:22:34 AM »
then adress our concerns so it doesnt happen.

So what doesn't happen?

ErthParadine

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2016, 01:24:11 AM »
This rule potentially concerns me as well.  I could understand if it was a number of relogs within a short time period, but 10 relogs within 24 hours is concerning to me.  With work, school, personal life, people may end up logging on and off throughout the day.

From an earlier comment
...
During the past six months there's been 7 known cases where relogs exceeded 10 in a 24 hour period. One, and perhaps now two, were related to corrupted player data files that required manual attention. One was a player overreacting to being muted on #general, and the others were related to network connectivity issues on the client-end. While 10 is relog number at the moment, we'll revisit that as time goes on, and general player patterns evolve.
...

What is your specific concern at this point?

ErthParadine

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2016, 06:44:48 AM »
Improving player behaviors and the apparent resolution of a few relogging related bugs/exploits, means we're tweaking this rule.

Previously the thresholds were set to 10 relogs per normal person's day (e.g. an effective 12 hour period, aka an actual 24 hour timeframe).

Moving forward we'll continue to consider temporary account suspensions if a single player relogs more frequently than 5 times the median average for our player population. With a current median of 3 logins per player, per day, that pushes our definition of excessive to 15 relogs/day.

Will also continue to approach this topic the same we have in the past; 24 hour suspension if we can't establish contact with you in-game, via forums, and/or via our mumble server. The goal of any such suspension also remains the same as before; get your attention, start a dialog, find out what you're doing about your instability.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 06:46:56 AM by ErthParadine »

Nacon

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2016, 08:22:00 AM »
Maybe it's possible to have a wrapper that auto check the time between each player's relogging?  Like a cooldown timer whenever someone logs out.   If that player logs in during cooldown time, should be blocked till that timer runs out?   Just not sure where or when does this glitch occurred during logging process.  Figured maybe it's possible to block them logging in completely before it trigger the issue.

ErthParadine

Re: Request for clarification...
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 06:46:34 PM »
Maybe it's possible to have a wrapper that auto check the time between each player's relogging?  Like a cooldown timer whenever someone logs out.   If that player logs in during cooldown time, should be blocked till that timer runs out?   Just not sure where or when does this glitch occurred during logging process.  Figured maybe it's possible to block them logging in completely before it trigger the issue.

Not exactly a wrapper, but something that monitors logs for activity, and responds on thresholds - yes, that's planned. I like your suggestion on the cooldown timer.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 06:48:28 PM by ErthParadine »